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UPDATE: A Letter to Steve Jobs
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By David Ciccone, posted Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
Reader Comments: 31
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Apple Computer
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014
Dear Mr Jobs, I am writing you a formal complaint dealing with your Executive Relations and a defective MacBookPro problem that Apple will not admit. I purchased my MacBookPro back in March of 2006 in which I was experiencing continuous whining noises.. Not only was I experiencing whining noises this MacBookPro also was getting EXTREMELY hot, in excess of 135 F. So I sent it in for repair and received the MacBookPro back with the same exact problem. So I immediately sent it back in for repair and called Apple Executive Relations and spoke with Robin Roberts. Ms Roberts was very concerned about my problem and checked daily the status of the repair. Unfortunately when I received the MacBookPro back from service it had the same exact problems. At this time Ms Roberts offered me two options: - Replace the MacBookPro with a new one
- Full refund
Since I really liked the MacBook I decided to swap it out for a new one.. I was informed to bring it back to the Menlo Park, NJ store for the exchange. I have to compliment the manager of this store since he was extremely helpful and sat with me the entire time while they backed up my information. Since each Apple store is very noisy it was very hard for me to determine if the noise was not on this unit. When I got home I noticed the noise but felt I would deal with it and used a plugin to force the sound to go away called MagicWhineKiller. This made the whine go away but after three weeks I was experiencing a loud " MOOOOO" sound? So I once again called Ms Roberts and she immediately asked me to return it back the the Apple Store for another exchange. Since May 2006, I have gone through two new MacBookPro's, 2 repairs and here is the kicker. In the past 4 months I have noticed the Magsafe connector fraying from heat? I immediately drove to the Menlo Park, NJ store and replaced the Magsafe power cord. Now Apple says this new "MAGNETIC" design is supposed to stop it from fraying. But what they didnt realize is that it doesn't stop the glue that holds the shield from melting. Last month once again I made a trip to my local Apple store because of the Magsafe connector was fraying again! So again I drove back to my local Apple store to replace my defective Magsafe power cord. This month I noticed my MacBookPro's battery was part of the recall of defective batteries in the MacBookPro's. So i filled out the paperwork and had a new battery sent to me. Last week I am now noticing severe warping all around the edges of the unit along with a battery slot that has completely warped causing the battery to wiggle. Not only is the entire laptop warping I am now getting flaking So what am I to do? I figured let me calll Ms Roberts and see if Apple would either swap out another NEW MacBookPro or refund my money.. Unfortunately Ms Roberts was out and I received a call from Alan Rose who worked for Apple Executive Relations also. I explained my issue with Mr Roberts and he stated, "Mr Ciccone you can take it back to the store and have them fix it" .. I explained to him that I went through this problem 6 times so far and quite honestly this is why I called Steve Jobs office. He responded "This office doesnt have to do anything for you quite honestly sir" .. "It's to our discretion if we want to replace it and this is not an option for you!" After hearing this I was totally amazed by the rudeness of Mr Rose and prompted him with the question, "What value does Mr Jobs office provide for a customer who has had 6 issues within a 5 month perion?" His answer was " This office doesn't have to provide anything to you!" Needless to say Mr Rose after an hour argument offered me nothing more than a telephone call to the Menlo Park, NJ store. I personally will NEVER buy another Apple product and quite honestly will inform as many people as i possibly can about this terrible experience! Mr Jobs I have been a long time Apple customer and I like this computer, but
the problems that I have experienced with it, along with the abusive
behaviour from Mr. Rose have really caused me to re-evaluate my desire
to purchase or use your products. I would like to stay your customer,
but for now it seems that you are making every effort to drive me away.
I hope that there can be a resolution to my numerous complaints about
your products and staff that will return a level of comfort to me about
buying from Apple. Right now though, your office, through the actions
of Mr. Rose is just driving me away. I will kindly wait for your response Thank You,
David Ciccone
UPDATE
This evening I had my appointment scheduled for my local Apple Store to look at the MacBookPro. When I arrived I was greeted by the Store Manager Tom and the Assistance Manager Greg. I showed them the MacBookPro and all the problems I was experiencing. Lucky for me Tom and Greg are two fantastic employees of Apple and they should be noticed for the great customer service they provided. They took the MacBookPro in the back room where they repair all of the computers. I was waiting for approximately 25 minutes when I noticed I had a message on my cellphone.. Guess who? Mr Rose! I have saved this message since he states this response to a letter I sent to Steve Jobs yesterday. He also clearly states that his response is in behalf of him. VOICEMAIL MESSAGESo per his voicemail I am stuck with having my local store once again for the 6th time send it in for repair! I was fuming and quite honestly about to walk out of the store and say forget it! As soon as I was about to walk out Tom and Greg approached me and stated they talked with Mr Rose and was told that Executive Offices are not approving an exchange and that the unit should be repaired. Since Tom and Greg knew my machine was in very bad shape they stepped up to the plate and offered me the following. - Replace the MacBookPro with a new unit with a full backup and restore along with my 2GB RAM moved into the new machine
- Replace the MacBookPro with a new MacBook with the exact same specs along with removing my 2GB RAM and backing up and restore the entire drive.
I immediately took them up on the offer and picked #2! I also was informed they would also credit the difference to my credit card and I also was eligible for a free HP Color Printer! So you tell me Mr Jobs, who should have stepped up to the plate?- The Executive Offices
OR
- The Menlo Park, NJ Apple Store
Both Tom and Greg should be recognized for their professionalism and customer service. These two managers saved an Apple customer from ever buying another Apple product again. This store didn't have to do what they did.. But they did! Why? Because sometimes you have to do things outside the box to make a customer happy!
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I’ve had similar issues with my IPod and their customer service. I’m also in the process of sending a letter to the Executive Relations group. I actually was in the market for a new computer and thinking about getting a Mac, after my many issues I have decided against it. It’s too bad that we have to rely on random quality employees for assistance, rather then company policy in place around providing good service. All of which we wouldn’t need if they could provide a quality product in the first place.
Posted by
milod21,
Wednesday, Dec. 20th, 2006
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Glad to hear this was resolved. So often we hear about corporate offices fixing issues that started from the employee level. Nice to hear a story from the reverse.
Sounds like Mr. Rose has a chip on his shoulder...
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I think Compaq/HP products are very reliable. I was one of the first Apple costumers, but with all the Apple changes during all this year they have lost the true idea of good products and good customer services; that's the reason for me to jump on the Compaq brand, after having the same problems with IBM and their customer service. Right now I use a Compaq Evo N400c and let me tell you it's an excellent machine, besides the great portability.
Posted by
latinware,
Thursday, Aug. 31st, 2006
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I am also experiencing problems with the Macbook Pro and have had horrible, even insulting support from Apple, despite spending 300 dollars for Applecare. SO LET'S DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Let's see if Apple is right or not about the people complaining just being very vocal. I was astonished when the Apple support representative claimed there were NO KNOWN ISSUES with the Macbook Pro...LETS DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. EMAIL ME AT adrianalex@hotmail.com, AND WE"LL SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE RESPOND TO START A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST APPLE.
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Oops, all those "Ms. Rose" should be "Ms. Roberts." Darn "R's."
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Wow, this post really offers a lot of insight. First, Dave, thanks for using your name in order to fight for the little guys. I love seeing people with pull make the big guys squirm. I think you were right to complain and that after shelling out big bucks, you ought to get a working product.
However, I do agree with a couple of others here that you ran into a stuck up executive who had better things to do than speak with an inferior members of the human race, at least from his point of view. Screw him. I find it humorous that you managed to badger him for an hour. I also find it amazing that he didn't hang up on you the moment he realized it wasn't someone higher up the rung than him. Either Mr. Rose has too much free time on his hands and needs to get back to work, enjoys badgering the customers, is a complete jackass, or all of the above. I'd go with "D."
I also think Ms. Roberts was probably much closer to doing her actual job and did it extremely well. Stevie, when you read this, bubba, give the girl a raise. Oops, did a Mr. Rose there. Mr. Jobs, please consider giving your excellent employee a raise - she inspires loyal customers.
If you've liked Apple in the past, then I'd consider Ms. Rose and allow this to work itself out. I was stunned that she allowed so many exchanges so quickly and so easily without giving you any fuss. She obviously didn't fear Mr. Rose's wrath when authorizing exchanges, so he must be a cherry exec amongst the bigwigs, kinda like a Brigadier General in the Pentagon, a coffee clerk. Hang in there, buddy, and don't forget the kneepads.
I've never owned anything Apple, to include an ipod. I suppose I could, but I enjoy tinkering with faulty PCs. My iPaq does so much more than an ipod.
My vote is for giving Apple one more chance. You were 50/50 with customer service. Might as well go for a majority. One last thing, they did offer a refund the first time. I'd say that's good. I bet if you called Ms. Rose, she'd still give you that refund since Mr. Rose is too busy jabbering the phone or fetching coffee.
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After saving up all summer for a fancy new Macbook Pro I'm glad I came across your letter. I was well prepared to shell out the $4000 CAD but now I think I'll just save my money for something else and continue working on my Presario clunker until Apple gets its act together...and maybe even then I won't think about a Mac.
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I used to work for a big box repairing computers. I hear all of you, but it will take all of us and new people to get all of the companies to bow to us. Perfect Product does not exist! if it did, we would be stuck with only one, no other choices! I we can just let the company know what problem we have and they replace the product, be happy. If you hear that they are doing what they can, wait, and see if they do get it right. I am still waiting to sell off my G4 iBook for a MacBook. Seems that the MacBook only has two problems and Apple has worked it out. The MB is not the best Apple offers, but it is a start. I did not want Apple to put out the MBP so soon, and heat would be an issue, but they did, and people are hopping mad about that issue, Blame Intel for the heat, not Apple. Computers are not cars or home stereos, which work all the time. Remember that computers jump the evolutionary chain every 6 to 9 months. Just see if you can return the MBP or get a credit and rebuy that model after January. (when Lepard comes out, the heat issue will be there again, my G4 iBook was getting hot from Tiger, and they updated Tiger and now it just gets warm...)
So I just read forums and posts, and wonder why we get emotional, and then clam up when the big boys are around? Lose control; so you can then bring order to bear, and then something wonderful will grow.
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Dear David Ciccone,
What is happing to you is the same thing with me. I would like to talk to you about this and mabe we can do something about it. Please email me at seasockman@yahoo.com
My MacBook burnt my leg and it gets 183F. A lot hotter then yours but I would like to talk to you and do you think you can e-mail me Ms. Robert's derect line. I think that she woulld be able to help me. Im sorry for you problems and I think I am going to go back to windows.
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Dave, I would take it to the BBB if you do not get any resolution and be sure to document all of your interactions with Apple thus far and forward. If they do not respond to BBB request for an equitable solution, then I would find an attorney to sue them.
I would also keep them apprised that you are trying to exhaust all means to have the issue rectified without having to pursue it legally. I mean they have already offered to give you a full refund, at the very least they should follow through with their promise and give you the refund since you have done them the favor of tirelessly trying a replacement device to rectify the issue.
At that point I would not continue doing business with them as far as your personal devices go.
Good luck. ;)
Posted by
Physboy,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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Also the "mooing" and some of the heat problems were fixed with a recent firmware update, which alters the fan behaviors.
Posted by
popstand,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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The cord fraying problem is probably due to a design flaw, not the heat. I would imagine that routinely pulling the cord out by the jacket, rather than the connector, is what is causing the fraying.
Posted by
popstand,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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Great letter Dave and I applaud you for speaking out! I too have a MBP and have similiar problems. Fortunately for me I returned mine for a full refund. Apple should do the right thing and come out and let everyone know the book has problems!
Posted by
4iedemon,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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Physboy I did ask for a downgrade to the non titaniam MacBook but he laughed and said "Then you would lose the $2000 difference"
Totally ridiculous response! I told him why not credit the difference and he said we couldnt do this!
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What good is a replacement if it just has the SAME issues if not more than the original? Replacing a defective product with a defective product does not solve the problem. FIXING the DEFECT or replacing the product with a product that does NOT have the defect is the answer.
That answer is not what Dave is getting from Apple, regardless of the rep that he is dealing with. I received umpteen replacements of my HP h6315, non of them resolved the defect with the BT not being as compatible as advertised when I purchased the product. I finally received my money back from T-Mobile, but it should have come from HP as it was a hardware issue ultimately and they knew it, just like Apple knows about the current issue with Dave's laptop.
Posted by
Physboy,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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I bought a MBP. The problems I've had are: whine, heat, battery failure, battery swelling, super drive failure, super drive swirling discs, failures coming back from screensaver/sleep. The best I could get out of Apple was a replacement battery. I think you got a fair bit of service, but the sentiment from Mr Rose is most definetly inexcusable.
I think one problem Apple has is that the sales and support reps seem to have no standards. If you get a good one, or one who's having a good day, they'll replace every thing you got and re-caulk your bathtub. If someone took the last chocolate glazed Krispy Kreme, you get Mr Rose.
Posted by
,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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Let's see now... they've handed you two new MacBook Pros when the one you had started making a whining noise. They've given you new cables and replaced everything in sight without charging you a penny extra. The first representative you dealt with treated you in an exemplary and professional manner.
Then, someone else treats you as less than the king of the world and suddenly you have had a terrible experience and will never buy anything Apple again?
Uh... ok. In my book, being issued complete hardware replacements multiple times sounds like a pretty darn good treatment of a customer. Yes, it seems that the MacBook Pro's have some issues with quality, and yes it would be good if they got things sorted out, but so far at least judging by your story they've bent over backwards to help you (until one guy at the end didn't, at which point the whine from your Mac doesn't seem to be the only whining noise in here.)
I don't use a Mac myself, but based on your story if I did get one, I would feel comfortable about knowing they'd hand me a new one if the one I bought wasn't 100%...
Posted by
cr0ft,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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tfvdw2at I definitely appreciate your feedback!
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David. What a nightmare, both the problems that you are having and the response that you are getting from Apple. I have some advice though on your approach that I hope that you will consider and that others reading your post will remember when corresponding with companies regarding problems.
In your letter to Steve Jobs you say the following:
"I personally will NEVER buy another Apple product and quite honestly will inform as many people as i possibly can about this terrible experience!"
So what is Apple's incentive to help you? You have told them that you will never buy from them again. They have lost you as a customer. If you had worded it the following way though, you would probably get a better response:
"I have been a long time Apple customer and I like this computer, but the problems that I have experienced with it, along with the abusive behaviour from Mr. Rose have really caused me to re-evaluate my desire to purchase or use your products. I would like to stay your customer, but for now it seems that you are making every effort to drive me away. I hope that there can be a resolution to my numerous complaints about your products and staff that will return a level of comfort to me about buying from Apple. Right now though, your office, through the actions of Mr. Rose is just driving me away.
Worded that way, they perceive that there is a chance that you can be saved as a customer and they may put forth an effort to resolve the problem and make you happy.
Just a thought. This is not an Apple specific thing. It is true for car companies, restaurants, cell phone companies, etc.
Posted by
tfvdw2at,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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Physboy valid points.
For those who aren't familiar with this site I was a big fan of Apple products I was an Apple Certified Technician back in the 90's.. I also worked for MacWarehouse for 2 years.
I also think it is a problem with heat that Apple is aware of along with a Titanium shell which just makes matters worse!
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No one in this thread has ever stated that Apple makes EVERY single product defective. That is an extreme perspective that was never purveyed in my post. However, there is an issue when the design of the product (internal as well as external) is primarily driven by marketing and market share grabbing tactics than by quality in functionality. (Hype over function). Listen, I remember the days when Apple made a quality competitive device in comparison to its competitors at the time. Those days have long since passed and all they have been doing lately is getting on a "Bash PC" bandwagon, (Kettle calling pot black) to try and grab yet even more market share.
I have clients with Apple products desktops and laptops (no servers as of yet), they have had the same issues as PCs with driver incompatibility during OS upgrades, hard drive functionality issues, etc... I do not expect Apple to make perfect products. I expect them to act like their products are marketable and then stand behind them when and if they fail miserably. This is in opposition to hyping up their products with flash and dash, and then having the end-user suck it up when their products do in-fact fail miserably. Case in point Mr.Reeves, since you want to engage in Dell bashing, when was the last time a class action suit for product malfunction filed against Dell? Never is your answer. In addition, when was the last time that Dell was involved in a class action suit for failing to honor its service agreements? Never would be your answer yet again. Who's blowing smoke now?
To set the record straight, I am not a "FAN" of the PC. I just have less problems creating profitable solutions for my clients with products and services other than that of APPLE. Dave's issue is but one of many, not the exception to the rule as many would have you believe. When I see that Apple has changed their business practices with the end user and giving the customer a quality product or service becomes more important than just getting another customer, then I would consider recommending their products and services again. This is something that is definitely within their grasp. I am not stating that they can not do it, just that they are not currently doing it.
That is my point. No smoke about it.
Posted by
Physboy,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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majik23,
I was too very pleased with my macbookpro for the first three weeks. But as time progressed my problems grew and now I have a MacBookPro that is totally defective.
Mr Reeves
The firmware you are talking about doesn't fix all MacBookPro's. See some logic boards are older than others so for me the fix did absolutely nothing.
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I just bought a Macbook Pro three weeks ago and I prefer to use it over my pc laptop and desktop. I have used it quite often while working latenight in bed and yes it does get warm, but it is not unbearable sitiing in my lap. I am sitting right now with both my Macbook and Toshiba Qosmio running and the Toshiba is actually warmer than the mac. As far as any noise, the macbook is quiet as a mouse.
Earlier this summer I had a problem with my IPod video where my screen cracked after I bumped it against an exercise machine. I took it into Apple and they replaced it immediatley in store. mouse.
I don't think any computer manufacturer is immune to having problems and unfortunatley there are those who are "lucky" to receive a few lemons in a row. I've had probelms with both toshiba laptops I've owned. Both have been repaired for bad motherboards and my Qosmio has been returned twice for that problem. An I disappointed with Toshiba laptops? Yes I am, Do I think they are a horrible company? No....I just know now to buy an extended warrenty. Now as far customer service, that is a very big think and a company needs to listen to it customers and work with them. I do sympathize with Dave and if I were given an answer like he recived I would be a little ticked as well. I am a firm believe that poor customer service sometimes can speak louded than poor product perfomance.
I am knocking on wood that apple has correct many of the issues with the macbook pro, but only time will tell. At the moment though I am really pleased with their product.
Posted by
majik23,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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unusable, I have the macbook and the mooing is distracting and I have to place a tray between it and my legs if I want to use it.... and my legs still get hot !
I worry if I have used it at night leaving it on a wooden surface - the heat is simply rediculous.... it will be interesting to see how you get on with your letter.
David
www.toppocket.net
Posted by
dclelo,
Wednesday, Aug. 30th, 2006
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i am very sorry to hear about your ill experience with apple. let me get one thing out of the way. i use apple products. i have many of them. between my desktops (dual G5 powermac, quad G5 powermac, dell pc) laptops (powerbook G4 17", Powerbook G4 15") and my servers (xserve G4, Xserve G5, Dell Xeon). i have not had any issues. the fact that you were offered an exchange so many times and so easily should be a testament to the level of commitment they have to the customers.
more over the "moooing" sound that you had is VERY easily fixed by a firmware update that you would have received via the built in software update. it is a permanent fix.
i love seeing all the pc fans bash apple an their customer service but honestly do you think Dell would have exchanged your computer and backed up your data at a local store? nope they would have said mail it back and we will ship another. apple has rated in the top three for customer saticefaction for years for a reason. http://www.theacsi.org/second_quarter.htm
before you bash you should all know what you are bashing. Mr. Ciccone has a valid complaint. but the rest of you are just blowing smoke.
-David Reeves
Information Technology Manager
Navajo Times Publishing Company Inc.
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Apple, another hype victim has been claimed. Will the insanity never end. It ends when people demand better. I say, at this point, even if Apple does offer you a new laptop, turn it down and take the refund. You know the saying, once fooled shame on them, twice fooled, that's all you at that point.
I can say that none of my clients who follow my recommendations will suffer these issues as I NEVER recommend APPLE products! When I see a change in customer concern in product and service developement, then maybe I will consider a recommendation. It will take a long time for me to see that from them, as they have yet to demonstrate it. The computer issues that Dave wrote about are not the result of poor customer service performance, they are from poor customer concern begining with their product developement.
Posted by
Physboy,
Tuesday, Aug. 29th, 2006
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Dave
I came across a post on cnet about a clear plastic film overlaying the air intakes just below the screen.The film was put on for shipping keeping dust out of the air intake vent.If not noticed that may be the cause of overheating to the point of hot hot to the touch.
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I own many computers and I never thought or wanted a Mac or Ipod. I do think this would make a good PC/MAC commercial "The rest of me is not here yet but it's ok because you melted" you would have had to seen the commercial to understand :)
Posted by
Xeon_IV,
Tuesday, Aug. 29th, 2006
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It is too bad that Apple is so out of touch with their customers. They make some innovative products but of they won't stand by them so they won't sell many. I hope that this is just a case of one incomptent employee and that Apple will rectify this situation. I don't blame you for taking this position. Come on Apple step up to the plate and stand by your product. A lot of these folks that are shelling out their hard earned money for your products are the same folks that stood by you when things were not so good. Is this the way to treat your customers. I think not!
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Phil this is absurd! I am NEVER buying another Apple product! That goes for iPODs, MacBookPro's and MacPro's! NOTHING! This book gets soo hot my two year old son screamed in pain when his hand touched the Macbookpro! That is unacceptable!
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Bad news for apple/mac.I came close to buying one before your short video cast a few months ago.Instead I went with the the Sony Vaio SZ230 P/B .My Vaio sz is the new power house in my notebook line up.
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